How to Name Your Company: 5 Rules for Naming a Good Brand
What’s in a name?
It turns out, there is more to a name than Juliet thought.
A bad name can ruin a good brand.
Montague Plumbing doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue, now does it?
In this week’s episode of the GaFB podcast, Raj and Ben are sharing Fruitful’s 5 rules for naming your company- these are the same rules we use when helping our clients name their companies.
Your name is one of the most important assets of your company.
A good brand name should become synonymous with the value you deliver to your clients. A common mistake a lot of brands make is in trying to achieve this, they cram all their vision and values into their name- effectively making their brand forgettable and uninteresting.
5 steps for naming your company
Let go of the idea of a ‘perfect name’- it doesn’t exist
Make it easy (for your client to remember, Google, and pronounce)
Is the name (and URL) even available?
Make it different, but not too different- you don’t want to be that company
Does the name match your brand’s DNA?
Check out this week’s episode on brand naming on YouTube and everywhere you listen to podcasts.
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Ep. 43:
How to Name Your Company: 5 Rules for Naming a Good Brand
Automated Transcript
Raj Lulla:
Hey, Ben.
Ben Lueders:
Yeah?
Raj Lulla:
What is the hardest thing to do when you're starting a company?
Ben Lueders:
Trying to find anyone other than your mom to like your Facebook page.
Raj Lulla:
Okay, that's number two, but number one is trying to figure out what to name your company.
Ben Lueders:
Welcome to Growing a Fruitful Brand, where we discuss how to create and grow a brand that makes the world a better place for you, your customers, and your employees. I'm Ben Lueders, founder and art director of Fruitful Design & Strategy, and this is my business partner and brand strategist Raj Lulla.
Raj Lulla:
Naming your business is one of the hardest things that founders and entrepreneurs have to do. On top of figuring out a good product and figuring out your audience and how you're going to get yourself out there in the world, selling, all those things, you also have to figure out what are we going to call this thing? It is so difficult. That's why a lot of people end up hiring agencies to help them with this.
In fact, there are some agencies that won't even touch the naming process because it's difficult. At Fruitful, we have found a way, found a process that has worked for dozens of companies and people have thankfully made millions of dollars on the companies that they've founded. Only a small part of that is the naming that we've been able to help out with.
Ben Lueders:
But it's an important part.
Raj Lulla:
Yeah, we're honored to have played that role. Along the way, we've figured out five rules that we adhere to every time that we name a company that helps people get to a better result faster. We want to share those with you today.
Ben Lueders:
Let's do it. All right, the first one is that there are no perfect names.
Raj Lulla:
Every name has assets and liabilities. That's how I like to describe it. Just thinking through, you're not going to have a perfect name. That's too much pressure to put on the process of naming your company. It's a lot like naming a kid. It's very personal.
I don't know how the naming process was for you and your kids, but for us, I was a teacher when we started having kids, and so just about every name you came up with, I had either somebody from my past associated with it. I also worked in churches, so we're talking hundreds of people there, and then students. There were so many people that had already had a lot of names in our lives.
Ben Lueders:
Oh yeah. That's the classic issue of naming a kid is like, I like that name, but we can't do that because so-and-so in junior high teased me one time about so-and-so. It's like, really? But it makes it hard.
Raj Lulla:
Even if I didn't have a negative experience with somebody, it was even just a neutral experience, I didn't want them to think that I was honoring them of like, wow, I didn't realize Raj thought so much of me. It's like, no, I just thought you had a cool name. You, whatever. Anyway, names have assets and liabilities. You go through this process when you're naming your own kids or your pets or whatever. The best way to think about it is that you want to maximize the assets of a name and minimize the liabilities of your name.
That's going to be done through selling, through your brand reputation, through your marketing, and the name itself does not have to be perfect. It's not going to be perfect. You think about some of the biggest brands out there in the world. Coca-Cola was named after cocaine as one of its main ingredients. Not a good look. It's honestly kind of amazing that that name has survived to this day based on that origin. Apple...
Ben Lueders:
Maybe that's why it has survived so well. I don't know.
Raj Lulla:
We don't know what's in Diet Coke. The recipe's a secret. It is kind of addictive, but I don't think cocaine's allowed anymore.
Ben Lueders:
The hint is in the name. It's literally called Coke.
Raj Lulla:
Soylent Green is people. But Apple was chosen from a list of friendly sounding words. It was pretty rogue in the industry at the time. You had businesses like Microsoft, microchips and software, you had IBM, International Business Machines, that made a lot more sense for the industry.
Ben Lueders:
I love how Raja says that. I think most people probably have no idea what IBM stands for. You know what I mean?
Raj Lulla:
Yeah, that happens with names though, but IBM's name has stuck around for a long time I think in part because they shortened it down actually.
Ben Lueders:
Exactly. I think IBM is a better name than...
Raj Lulla:
Than International Business Machines.
Ben Lueders:
Exactly.
Raj Lulla:
You're going to have assets and liabilities. Pepsi, not a great name, came from talking about stomach acid and amino acids in your stomach. The reason why Pepsi Cola and Pepcid AC have very similar names, they actually come from the same thing. They used to think that drinking Pepsi would be good for your stomach.
Ben Lueders:
Why I just drink Pepcid AC now.
Raj Lulla:
We've talked on the podcast before about how Nike was mispronounced as Nike early in its life. It's named after the Greek goddess of victory, but nobody knew that, even people who know Greek mythology.
Ben Lueders:
Right, right. I used to pronounce it Nike when I was a little kid. My dad's name was Mike and he wore Nikes when he went to the gym.
Raj Lulla:
And even people who know Greek mythology, they read Percy Jackson or whatever, it's not like Nike is a big goddess even in the Pantheon. It was unfamiliar. We kind of immortalized these names because the companies were so great that we're just like, well, that was a great name. I'm here to dispel that myth. There are no perfect names. A lot of it is what you make of it. However, you can make a lot of mistakes in naming your company and that could prevent you from ever becoming a good company.
Ben Lueders:
Exactly.
Raj Lulla:
Second rule then is that it has to be easy and it has to be easy in a couple of different directions. First is that it has to be easy to pronounce. Now, again, you're going to find exceptions to some of these rules. Nike, I think, is one that it wasn't immediately obvious, immediately easy to pronounce.
And thankfully through the partnerships with sports stars and that stuff, they got the brand name out there quickly. It's not a risk that you should take in most cases. For example, Marty Neumeier, who's a famous brander, he gives the example of Citibank versus Wachovia. I'm not even sure if Wachovia is still around anymore.
Ben Lueders:
Wait, I thought that was Wachovia.
Raj Lulla:
If you are ordering a quesadilla at Chili's before you go to Wachovia as your bank, then yes, it is pronounced that way.
Ben Lueders:
There you go.
Raj Lulla:
The other thing is it has to be easy to Google. Google is a combination of spelling and memorability, the obviousness of the name. I think that there are brands today that you wouldn't necessarily have named that way if they were started in the era of Google.
Ben Lueders:
Oh, absolutely.
Raj Lulla:
Even something like H&R Block, it doesn't immediately go, "Oh yeah, that tax place." Again, even though it's a...
Ben Lueders:
What does H&R stand for? I'm assuming it's names of the founders.
Raj Lulla:
Well, now you embarrass me because I don't know.
Ben Lueders:
You keep talking.
Raj Lulla:
He's going to Google while we figure that out. But I mean. That's. Again, part of the point is that you wouldn't have created that naming convention in today's world. It has to be easy to Google, easy to spell. There was a trending or a trend there for a while where people would drop letters from names, and that can make it difficult to find you on Google. Now, if you're...
Ben Lueders:
Just a second, I have to say, Henry and Richard.
Raj Lulla:
Oh, you're right.
Ben Lueders:
And their last name was Bloch, B-L-O-C-H, and they changed it to Block with a K.
Raj Lulla:
I respect that.
Ben Lueders:
Henry and Richard Bloch.
Raj Lulla:
Yeah, and it says it had always been difficult for people to pronounce and spell. Even back then, they knew that having a name that's hard to spell and pronounce because is it Bloch? Is it Bloch? Whatever.
Ben Lueders:
I love it.
Raj Lulla:
Even before Google.
Ben Lueders:
All right, back to the regularly we figured it out.
Raj Lulla:
Don't make it difficult for your customers. It has to be easy, easy to pronounce, easy to Google, easy to spell, because they want to be able to find you and recommend you.
Ben Lueders:
I think on that note, kind of like you were comparing Citibank to Wachovia, Uber is probably a better name than Lyft.
Raj Lulla:
In terms of the Y.
Ben Lueders:
Yeah, it's like Lyft with a Y, whereas Uber is just the way that you spell it.
Raj Lulla:
If Uber had been slightly less familiar, people were like, "Oh, it's a German word to mean super," but you had to explain that every time, then it wouldn't have been great.
Ben Lueders:
It already worked its way into I think our conversation like Uber.
Raj Lulla:
Yeah, I'm uber excited for the...
Ben Lueders:
Yeah, exactly.
Raj Lulla:
Exactly. At one time, it would not have been a good name, but where it was culturally, yeah, it was a good name.
Ben Lueders:
I've got a little name thing just popped in my mind that I recently learned. Now, you're a much better namer brander than I am, so I will say you probably already know this, but why is Airbnb called Airbnb?
Raj Lulla:
I mean, originally I believe the concept of it was sort of this couchsurfing app where it wasn't so much about, oh, renting a room in my house, it was like, I'm going to be in Dallas playing with my band and I literally just need a couch to sleep on.
Ben Lueders:
Or an airbed.
Raj Lulla:
Oh, is that where it's from?
Ben Lueders:
That's what it is. That is the concept though. Originally it wasn't like so much, here's this home you can stay in, but it's like a bed and breakfast, but airbed and breakfast.
Raj Lulla:
That's fantastic.
Ben Lueders:
I think I knew that at one point, but it happened when we were staying in an Airbnb in the middle of Nebraska and my wife's grandma was like, "Why is it called Airbnb?" I'm like, "That's a great question. I'll look it up." Interestingly, they're actually trying to get back to that service of like, hey, just a room in your house, just a couch. They're trying to add that back into their app now.
Raj Lulla:
That's so interesting.
Ben Lueders:
I always thought kind of a terrible name.
Raj Lulla:
They should rebrand to a half deflated mattress. You wake up in the morning and your back hurts.
Ben Lueders:
A little tangent there, but names are just so fascinating.
Raj Lulla:
Again, another great example of that name has assets and liabilities. They leaned into the flowiness of it. They created a great logo that feels really warm and breezy and friendly. I would've assumed that the air part was sort of wifi or it's like you can look it up on your phone.
Ben Lueders:
It's easy or breezy. But that's the thing is there's obviously liabilities with it, but they have worked so hard on all the other aspects of their brand and it's become such a word. Whereas VRBO, VRBO or whatever, that's one that's probably a terrible name and they don't have the same... People don't just say VRBO the way they say Airbnb, at least not around here.
Raj Lulla:
In fact, I literally had a conversation this week where somebody spelled it out the whole time, and I don't know either way. Is it supposed to be VRBO? Is it supposed to be VRBO?
Ben Lueders:
I think I've seen ads where they say VRBO, but most people... First of all, most people don't say it. I don't feel like people talk about it the same way, but I've heard people say VRBO.
Raj Lulla:
Just think about it, this is such a great example, which one would you be more likely to recommend? A name that you don't know for sure how it's pronounced or a name that you're like, hey, it's Airbnb, like the word air and BNB, like bed and breakfast. It's so easy. You have to make it easy for people.
Ben Lueders:
You got to make it easy.
Raj Lulla:
The third rule is that it has to be available. You have to be able to get this name legally and have a good URL for it. You want to go to GoDaddy or Google Domains or whoever you buy your URLs from and search for these names as you're thinking of things. We also search the US Patent and Trademark Office to see if other companies have squatted on these names. But to be honest, here at Fruitful, we actually partner with a legal team from a local law firm to help us do this part because we want to make sure that our clients don't fall in love with a name that's not going to work for them.
Ben Lueders:
That's the worst. You're like, "Yeah, we've got it. We've got it," and then you find out legally you can't use it.
Raj Lulla:
You certainly don't want to get all the way through the branding process, Ben, and the design team have created a great logo for you. You accept it. You take all the files. You pay your last bill, and then you send it to your lawyer and go, "Are we good?" Your lawyer goes, "No, absolutely not. There's a company called Coca-Cola already." You don't want to come back to us and be like, "Hey, can you just redo it for free?" It's like, "No, we did the work that you paid us to do, just because nobody did their homework."
We don't want to put you in that situation. We don't want to be in that situation either. Now we've partnered with a legal team to make sure that the name is at least most likely available. We don't go all the way through the trademark process. That's between you and your lawyer, but we do hire them to search for you to make sure that it's at least defensible from the beginning here. That's a big deal because, like I said, you don't want to fall in love with a name that doesn't work.
This part can be really discouraging. You think of a name and you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is the one. It's Lightning In A Bottle. It's going to be so great."
Ben Lueders:
Lightning In A Bottle. That's good.
Raj Lulla:
It's the name of my new tequila brand, Lightning In A Bottle.
Ben Lueders:
Probably already exists.
Raj Lulla:
You know the name that I think should exist in tequila is Tequila Mockingbird.
Ben Lueders:
Oh yeah, I have thought of that.
Raj Lulla:
There is a Mockingbird Tequila, but I've not seen anybody do Tequila Mockingbird. I'll have to see if the lawyer will let us pass that one.
Ben Lueders:
Is there really a Mockingbird Tequila?
Raj Lulla:
There is, yeah, yeah. I think it's great. One of the things I like to remind myself when I get discouraged in thinking of names for other companies is there's this rule in creative work where if you're one in a million in the US, there's 1,000 of you in China.
Ben Lueders:
I thought I was special.
Raj Lulla:
You are special. It's okay. Your mom wasn't lying. You are special.
Ben Lueders:
Oh, thanks.
Raj Lulla:
But it just helps to frame it in that we've all been shaped by a lot of the same cultural things. We say the same pledge of allegiance. We sing the same national anthem, same Founding Fathers, all of that.
Ben Lueders:
You got really patriotic for a second there.
Raj Lulla:
A lot of similar symbolism. Depending on your faith background, you might've been raised with certain values or certain symbols. A lot of us grew up with there being only three channels on television, so we watched a lot of the same Saturday morning cartoons and same shows, all that. I make myself sound super old now.
Ben Lueders:
We didn't watch any TV, so pretty sheltered. But also similarly, we all align ourselves with different brands and different tribes as well. We grow up in a world where we think Apple is a brilliant name for a technology company, and that conditions the way we think about names, what we would accept as a cool name. Whereas if we had grown up at a different time, we might think that all technology companies have to have a very literal name or an acronym.
Raj Lulla:
There was a time where Apple almost went out of business.
Ben Lueders:
Yeah, that's true.
Raj Lulla:
In the annals of history, it might've been don't name your company something weird like that because you'll end up out of business. It didn't. Obviously it's the most valuable company in the world now, but things can go either way and sometimes it is or is not the fault of the name. This is almost something to balance against the easiness of it is that it does have to be memorable. It has to be different enough from your competitors, but not so different that people are just like, "I don't remember. It was that thing with the funny name."
I think that's one of the worst things that somebody can say about your brand, it was that thing with the funny name, because your name is arguably one of the most important assets of your brand. People aren't going to say, "Oh, I shop at that one place. Oh, we should order it from that one place." It may be for your favorite Chinese food, Indian food restaurant, whatever, and you're struggling to remember the name because it's unfamiliar to you in English.
Maybe they'll be, "Oh, that Indian place we like." You might say that, but they're not going to say, "You know, that store with all of the diapers and food and stuff."
Ben Lueders:
Right. I'll even say some of the foreign restaurants that have come maybe hard to pronounce names from their country translating into American. I think some of the best ones have found ways to... We're Golden Mountain or even my family used to go to one called Hong Hing. It's easy to pronounce. It's simple. I don't really know what it means. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but they're making it easy for their audience.
Raj Lulla:
Coca-Cola, I'll bet some of you learned for the first time today that there was any relationship to cocaine.
Ben Lueders:
You're probably going to the store right now to get your first bottle.
Raj Lulla:
But Coca-Cola, it almost rhymes. It's got this rhythm to it. It's really easy to say.
Ben Lueders:
Alliteration.
Raj Lulla:
It has to be memorable, different enough, but not too different. Thinking through that, you probably are going to have a worse time naming your company something like Omaha Plumbing Supplies or something like that. Now, it could be great for SEO, so you might be okay there, but let's go a little further back, maybe something like Omaha Industrial and Janitorial Supplies or something.
Ben Lueders:
Rolls off the tongue.
Raj Lulla:
It's very specific to your industry and it fits your industry if your competitor is Omaha Plumbing Supplies, but they're going to get more business than you if yours is Omaha Industrial and Janitorial Supplies Incorporated, or whatever. It's too much. You'd want to stand out in some way, and the answer is most likely not to be OIJS. People aren't going to remember it.
Ben Lueders:
Well, we've talked about it before, I mean, branding, it's an exercise in differentiation. It's like, how can I stand out in this industry? We look at what competitors in an industry are doing not to see how we can emulate, but to see how can we stand out if this is what the playing field looks like. I think that's why with Amazon, the biggest online bookseller, they could have gone for Bookstore.com or something like that, but Amazon, it stands out. It's like, what does it mean? What does it have to do with Amazon?
They found clever ways to tie it into A to Z and all that kind of fun stuff. Branding people just have a lot of fun with that, but it stands out. And same with Apple. It's like in a world of IBM that literally means something or in the world of Microsoft, no, we're going with the name of a fruit. It stands out. It's different, and different is good. It helps you be more memorable. In a sea of the same, people are going to remember what's different.
Raj Lulla:
However, you do also want to weigh that against being so far outside of the norm that it doesn't make sense. If you're doing a financial literacy app or a budgeting app and it's called Ketchup and Mustard, nobody would probably use that, because it is just like, "I don't really understand this." Maybe, but you have to think about what actually makes sense in our industry. Why would Ketchup and Mustard even be a good name for a financial app? Because what people generally want to do with their finances is they want to grow.
They want to be responsible. They want to build for the future. That's why a lot of financial apps have aspirational types of names or names that make you feel really safe. You don't want to go with something that's just so off the wall that it doesn't help you, unless you've got millions and millions to spend on your marketing, in which case, by all means, call us. We'll be happy to build you all the billboards in the world.
Ben Lueders:
We will name you Ketchup and Mustard.
Raj Lulla:
All right, so our last rule here is that your name has to match the DNA of your brand. Unfortunately, this is the most difficult one. Because after you've already got through the gauntlet of knowing that there's no perfect name, realizing you're going to have to maximize the assets, minimize the liabilities, it has to be easy to pronounce and to spell in Google, it has to be available, you got to be able to find a good URL and get it through the patent trademark office, maybe your Secretary of State as well, it has to be memorable, different but not too different, now you have to get to the creative style part of the name.
It feels like, oh my gosh, this is exhausting. This is why a lot of people do hire an agency to help them with naming. Again, why a lot of agencies won't touch it because it is difficult. In fact, there's a brander named Eli Altman who runs a studio that actually specializes in naming and words. He created this poster and wrote a book about...
Ben Lueders:
For those of you listening, Raj is pulling out a giant poster.
Raj Lulla:
It's right side up. Is it upside down? It's upside down.
Ben Lueders:
You're upside down.
Raj Lulla:
Okay, now it's right side up. [Crosstalk 00:22:19] Types of name. Eli comes up with 29 different ways to name your company. I find that to be a lot. He either could have rounded up to 30 or squished it down to 25 or 20, but he did him. Good for you, Eli. But I like to just condense those down to four conventions of naming. You have real words, made up words, names, and initials. This helps with this, is it available? It's like you have these different types of names that you can do. Now, just because something is made up of real words doesn't mean that it has to be a real word.
Ben Lueders:
Right. Right.
Raj Lulla:
Like I said, it doesn't have to be searchengine.com. It could be Google. Google's based on a number, a really big number, and that calls to how much stuff is on the internet. It relates to the business that they do, but it's not searchengine.com. Same with a company that we named called Skillwork. They do travel staffing for skilled labor. It makes sense for them. Their workers are skilled and they do skilled work. We took skill and work, smashed it together, Skillwork. That was one of the ways that we found a good URL.
Now, something I did want to mention is that URL wasn't immediately available. We had to go buy that from someone else, and thankfully, it was available. That person wasn't really using it. They just owned it and we purchased it from them. Got it to Skillwork. It's a great part of their brand now. Really clean, easy to spell, skillwork.com. But then you can do made up words as well. This is one to be careful with. Some people want to infuse, you've talked about this, too much of their values and everything into it and it just makes a little hobbyhorse, camel out of...
Ben Lueders:
They're pulling obscure references from their childhood or the founder and insert this Greek mythology here or religious symbolism here. It can turn into this hobbyhorse or camel that you're loading up. It has all this meaning to you, and then someone else sees it and they can't pronounce it.
Raj Lulla:
If your tree house as a kid was named Brian's Place and you're like, "Oh, that's why I named my company Bripple, because we put Brian's and Place together. It's going to look like Bripple. Is it with an R? Is it a Y in there? Is it an I? Is it two Ps? It's like not good. No.
Ben Lueders:
I love how quickly that name came to you.
Raj Lulla:
I'm very good at bad names.
Ben Lueders:
I want to know more about Brian.
Raj Lulla:
Do be careful with made up words. There are some great ones. For example, Häagen-Dazs is completely made up.
Ben Lueders:
Really?
Raj Lulla:
You would think that it means delicious ice cream in German or something. It's completely made up. It doesn't mean anything.
Ben Lueders:
Another good one too, and I had a Google this, I thought I had heard of this, but Kodak, Kodak is a completely made up word. The founder really liked the K seemed really strong. He wanted something that sounded very American, very strong. It's really easy to say. It's really short. Kodak.
Raj Lulla:
That's so interesting.
Ben Lueders:
It kind of sounds like a camera. Kodak. It lasts the test of time.
Raj Lulla:
I would've thought it was a name. That's really interesting.
Ben Lueders:
You would assume it sounds like after William H. Kodak who founded... Nope, completely made up. It kind of sounds like Kodiak or something like that.
Raj Lulla:
You were telling me about Airbnb as well. Where did that get its name?
Ben Lueders:
Oh yeah. This is funny. We were staying in an Airbnb, my family and I, a few weeks back in Western Nebraska. My wife's grandma was like, "Why is it called Airbnb?" I had to think for a second. It's like, I feel like I used to know what Airbnb stood for, but basically I guess in the early days of Airbnb before everyone was renting out second homes that they own, it was more of a couchsurfing kind of a thing. It actually stands for airbed and breakfast.
It's like a bed and breakfast, but you just need an airbed, an air mattress kind of a thing. It was really brilliant then. They've really gone quite a ways from that business model, although word on the street as they're actually trying to infuse a little bit of that into their business model again.
Raj Lulla:
I love more air mattresses in most days. I like my back to hurt.
Ben Lueders:
That's right. That's right. That doesn't even really describe who they are now, but they have built such a brand around that and they've made it such a... People will say they stayed in Airbnb when they really did a VRBO or a VRBO or something else because it's almost just like that word that we use to describe a place that we stayed.
Raj Lulla:
I didn't know that you could stay in a Furby.
Ben Lueders:
A Furby.
Raj Lulla:
I think it's a terrible name.
Ben Lueders:
Furby, however, it's a great name. It's hard to mispronounce.
Raj Lulla:
It's like a fur baby.
Ben Lueders:
VRBO, not my favorite. VRBO .
Raj Lulla:
Real words, made up words, names, initials. One thing I want to caution you on is only use your name if it's the right thing for the brand. I think people default to it and it's not always a good look.
Ben Lueders:
Have you ever used your name for a brand, Raj?
Raj Lulla:
I started a photography company about 10 years ago and it is called Lulla Photography, but the reason I did was because at the time, the convention and naming a photography business was to go with something to do with a stitch in time photography or capturethemoment.com. It was so cheesy and I couldn't get behind it.
There are some really great names in there. I think Shutterfly is a fantastic name in the naming industry. Again, nothing has a perfect name because Shutterfly, Butterfly, and then there's Fluttershy in My Little Pony. I used to think my daughter was saying Shutterfly and I was like, how have you ever heard of Shutterfly?
Ben Lueders:
Don't say that 10 times fast. You're starting in weird territory.
Raj Lulla:
There are good made up names in that industry. I just couldn't think of one that was better than my own name.
Ben Lueders:
I think that's actually really a good naming convention where you're positioning yourself as an artist and you're putting your name on your work. That's something that I think is pretty common with photography, with illustrators, with painting artists and sculptors, ceramic. You see people's names in that. I think the trick is when the names are really hard to pronounce or really long, that's when you might want to consider maybe we should try something different.
Raj Lulla:
Yeah, exactly. My last name is five letters, so super easy. That made it easier to get away with having photography as a name. I didn't want to go with photo because it seemed to cheapen the product. Kind of more like the Walmart Photo Lab or whatever, it just seemed too low end. It allowed me to get a little bit longer in the descriptor. I will say one thing that we did with your help was that we used an elephant as our symbol in part because of my Indian heritage, but then also people have asked me about it.
Elephants have amazing memories. They're one of the few animals that mourns the death of another animal. They're highly intelligent. They have great memories. Really when you're selling photography, you're not selling the photos, you're selling an encapsulation of a memory. If I'm shooting at your wedding, then it's not just a four by six or an eight by 10 or whatever they're selling you, it's this moment in time that's singular was captured and you'll have this forever. You can pass it down to your kids and your grandkids so they'll remember you.
Ben Lueders:
If you think of differentiation, not a lot of wedding photographers with a elephant as their logo, I think.
Raj Lulla:
No. A lot of cameras, a lot of shutter icons, all that kind of stuff. I went a completely different direction.
Ben Lueders:
Like wedding rings or something like that.
Raj Lulla:
Yep, 100%. There are a couple of bonus rules I'd like to throw out there for you. Number one, I consider this to be a pay-to-play rule is Donald Miller talks about how you don't necessarily have to have integrity as one of your core values as your company because assuming that you're not stealing from us is a condition of working here. In a similar way, this is a pay-to-play rule for naming anything. It has to pass the junior high test. Would someone immature giggle at the name that you came up with?
Ben Lueders:
Wait, that's bad? Give me an example.
Raj Lulla:
I mean, most often it's bad. Sometimes there are, I'm going to say this on the podcast, earmuff your kids for a second, but Big Ass Fans is probably the one example I've ever heard of that got away with flouting that convention, but they did it on purpose and it's worked really well for them. I think in part because their products are incredible. They create these massive fans that are almost silent. You can cool off an entire barn with one of these huge aerospace grade fans. Other than that, it generally does not work.
One of the worst businesses... Before I say this, I want to say I respect anybody who starts a business. I know how hard it is, and I know hard it is to brand yourself. Hey, go for it. Do what you need to do. However, there used to be a local company called Holly's Healthy Holes that I even now...
Ben Lueders:
Try not to giggle.
Raj Lulla:
I even now struggle to giggle with. I literally took a picture of it the first time that I ever saw the sign because I had to send it to my friend so we could laugh.
Ben Lueders:
But then you could flip that too though. It got you to share that with a friend. Now they're talking about it. They'll never forget it. I've heard you mention Holly's Healthy Holes more times than I would care to repeat. I'm sure there was some strategy. Maybe she's the genius here.
Raj Lulla:
Again, this is an assets and liability question, is being willing to be the butt of a joke, pun regrettably intended. Is that something you're willing to do for fast name recognition? That's a trade-off that you got to be really careful with. Because I mean, ultimately, even with a very memorable name, it did not make me want to buy the product. It did not make me trust the judgment of somebody who would create a name that sounded so gross to make something delicious. It was a bakery, by the way. I feel like we should mention that.
Ben Lueders:
That's right, like donut holes.
Raj Lulla:
Donut holes. You wouldn't have guessed that necessarily by me saying the name. That's the point, right? I think that it, for me, underminded trust in the brand. I never tried it. They went out of business a few years ago.
Ben Lueders:
Because Raj didn't try them.
Raj Lulla:
I have no idea. I think, honestly, she just wanted to make a change in career. That kind of thing I would not recommend. You have to pass the junior high test, got to pass the giggle test. If you don't have someone in your life who will do that for you, I went to public school, Ben didn't, so he doesn't catch all of them, but feel free...
Ben Lueders:
I get the joke personally.
Raj Lulla:
Feel free to send it to me. I will tell you if you're not going to pass the giggle test. The other bonus rule that I'd like to throw out here, this comes again from Marty Neumeier, the expert in branding, he recommends it be four syllables or less. I think that this is a fantastic rule. Now, one of the challenges that you're going to come up with is that, like Ben talked about, sometimes you want to cram your values in there, and you feel like you're letting something down if you don't.
Remembering this rule, four syllables or less, usually it's like Fruitful Design, just adding a descriptor in there at all is really difficult. Now, are we flouting that rule a little bit, Fruitful Design & Strategy? Yes, but we most often go by Fruitful.
Ben Lueders:
Yeah, Fruitful, two syllables.
Raj Lulla:
It's two syllables. In descriptors, in one-liners, sure, have some more syllables. That's great. But your main name, you don't want to go with onomatopoeia.com or something. It's going to be too difficult.
Ben Lueders:
I feel like most of the ones that we've talked about today, I think Skillwork, Apple, Nike, Kodak, I think the one word that's two syllables is really, really strong.
Raj Lulla:
Coca-Cola gets away with four, which I think is on the upper end, but in part...
Ben Lueders:
It just bounces off the...
Raj Lulla:
Yeah, in part because the almost rhyming nature. Most of the letters are the same in Coca-Cola.
Ben Lueders:
But we shorten it too, Coke.
Raj Lulla:
Yeah, that's true.
Ben Lueders:
You know what I mean?
Raj Lulla:
Exactly.
Ben Lueders:
They've got both.
Raj Lulla:
I want to talk about a few names that we have created. We talked about Skillwork. Love those guys over there. We were fortunate to partner with First National Bank, FNBO, to create something called the New Stockyard Group and a product called Cattle Id. Those are both being wound down now, but they were great pilots in the area of blockchain and agriculture.
We went with New Stockyard Group because it was a call back to the roots of Omaha as a stockyard town where people would bring their animals to sell. As we're dealing with something as high-tech as blockchain to honor the origins of the industry, it's like this isn't about the tech, it's about the goal, which the goal is to sell your animals and to do well as an ag producer. Those folks work super hard and deserve every dollar they get.
Ben Lueders:
The main logo mark was the initials NSG. We went into this historical... We made belt buckles for the ranchers and stuff that was NSG and more of the IBM kind of a name with a historic...
Raj Lulla:
Even then, New Stockyard Group, four syllables. Cattle Id was a great product. It was an app, again, aimed at blockchain. I'm not going to lie, it was informed by Apple, Touch ID, Face ID. When we're trying to create an app to identify cattle, Cattle Id was a name that seemed pretty obvious. There was a little bit of competition for it in the space. But if for a pilot product that maybe was going to be renamed later, it was a great thing to get out in the world.
Sometimes you can do FNBO Cattle Id or something like that, that would protect you from having to worry about trademarking a name that's fairly obvious like that. A few other, we recently had the pleasure of renaming First State Bank here in Omaha to Dayspring Bank. I think you can immediately recognize that Dayspring is so much more memorable than First State Bank, especially in a town that has previously had Omaha State Bank, has First National Bank, First Bank, First Interstate.
Too much competition. Dayspring stands out so much more. It has given a lot of life and energy to that brand and to the great folks over there. A fun coffee company that we've gotten to name Glean Coffee. That one's particularly fun because they came to us with this idea that they wanted to do a coffee company that gives back, like from the beginning the idea of giving back. They're people of faith.
In the story of Ruth in the Bible, it talks about how farmers are supposed to only go through their fields one time, harvest what they can, and then leave the rest, it's called the gleanings, for other people to come work and get for themselves. If you're hungry, you can come harvest wheat from here. Anything that our folks missed on the first go through the fields, you can come work. There's honor and dignity to that work, and then you'll also have food. It was just so emblematic of the values of the company, but also sounds great.
Glean rhymes with clean. It's easy to spell. It's five letters. Nobody else that we had found was in the industry, which is really hard with coffee companies because there's so many of them. Really great name to be able to come up with there. I wanted to mention another one. Why don't you tell us a little bit about... We had the opportunity to help name Thrasher's parent company. What was that process like?
Ben Lueders:
I mean, Thrasher Basement Systems is a big local company here in Omaha, and they've expanded throughout the Midwest. Thrasher is the last name, it's their last name, but they wanted to have a parent company that could encompass some of the other brands that they were acquiring.
Raj Lulla:
Because they're not just in basements anymore.
Ben Lueders:
Yeah, yeah, they do more than that.
Raj Lulla:
The foundation, the garage.
Ben Lueders:
Hello Garage is one of their companies. If you just look at the final result of Thrasher Group, it's like, well, boy, that was hard, but we went through a whole process to get there. That's kind of the whole thing is, and we talk about this, it's one of the first things... I think it's the first thing that Raj says when we go through a naming process is we take all ego out of it. We don't have to be the ones to come up with the name. We're giving you a process to help you and help all of us work on names together.
If the client is the one that comes up with the final one, or if it's based on something that they share, that's awesome. If it hits all of these things, that's great. That was one that, again, might seem more obvious, but it really fits them well. We built a whole brand around it that just really feels like them.
Raj Lulla:
That way, when other companies that have different names like Hello Garage are part of the Thrasher Group family, then it retains that identity of the original company, which is a great company. And then also though, it makes it clear, why am I getting a paycheck from a company that's got a different name? It's like, well, because this belongs to the Thrasher Group of companies, which is why we went with a pretty straightforward name. Sometimes that is the right choice.
Ben Lueders:
Yeah. But I mean, even in that one, I'm just thinking about some of the things that were said during that process, one of the options could have been Thrasher Family. But family can be a loaded term. Family doesn't always mean the same thing. They're really quick to be like, "Yeah, I don't know that we want to say we're your family because family can be a loaded concept."
Raj Lulla:
Can I get fired from my family?
Ben Lueders:
Yeah, exactly. Also, a lot more syllables too, if you think about family, where Thrasher Group, it's right there and syllables. It just kind of works.
Raj Lulla:
Wanted to give honorable mention to a couple of other companies that we've helped name that we don't have a ton of time to go into it, but Verdant Group, which is formerly Goracke and Associates. It's a longtime accounting firm here in Omaha. They had a bigger vision. Verdant, meaning green and growth, was a great name for them, providing more business services outside of accounting.
Great folks over there. Also, really, really love our friends at Hardy Coffee. Hardy was Autumn, the founder's maiden name, but it also describes the Midwestern hardiness of people. It's a great way to start the morning with a cup of coffee that's going to actually stand up to the rigors of your day.
Ben Lueders:
That's another one where that name really came from them through the process.
Raj Lulla:
We didn't invent her maiden name.
Ben Lueders:
Yeah, obviously. But through the process that we went through together, that really came to the surface as the winner. Again, there's no ego here. This is your baby. We're giving you a process to help name your baby that you're going to have to live with.
Raj Lulla:
I got to give you a gold star for naming Fruitful.
Ben Lueders:
Oh, thanks, Raj.
Raj Lulla:
It's a great name. We've been asked many, many times, I mean sometimes seriously if people could buy the name, and it really represents who we are, what we want to happen for our clients. It's connected to the values that we hold, but it's not exclusive. It's been a really great name for our company and really describes what we want to happen for our clients when they work with us. We want them to grow. We want the work to bear fruit that's multiple times bigger than the work that we do for them and the investment that they make with us.
Whether you have a company name or not, for you, you might be thinking about starting a company, or you might have a company name that you've never really been crazy about, we get a lot of those, people restarting often when something's being handed down between generations of a family, or you just took over as CEO and you're like, "Ooh, this thing's a mess," then... And maybe not even the company, but just the name. Hey, company's great, the name's terrible. People won't recommend it to their friends.
I got a client like that right now. Then I would just challenge you to think through those rules. Does it pass the junior high laugh test? Again, that's a pay-to-play value. But recognizing are the liabilities greater than the assets for this name? Is it too hard to pronounce? Our accounting firm just went down from lots of names to one name because it was too much to remember. Law firms and accounting firms encounter this all the time. Is it easy, easy to pronounce, easy to spell, easy to Google?
Is the availability good? Has the marketplace gotten crowded with 18 different banks or organizations named very similar to you? Is it memorable? Do people forget you? One of the only ways to measure that is are you getting the amount of business that you want? If not, it could be your brand, it could be your name that's standing in the way. And then lastly, does it match the DNA of your brand? Does your name really represent who you are? It can be really weird sometimes when the company was named after the founder, but the founders moved on many generations ago.
You might go, "Hey, no, this doesn't represent us anymore." It's not a dishonor to the people who founded it. Have a history section in the about page of your website. Put up a plaque. Do whatever you need to do to honor that person. But if it's not serving your customers, then you're costing yourself money. You're making your marketing less effective than it could be, and you're making it harder for your customers to recommend you to other people because it's difficult to pronounce, hard to remember whatever it may be, or you might just be hard to find.
If you've got a great company, then you deserve a name that is good, that is easy to remember, that is available, that's differentiated, and is going to actually give your customers a taste of what it's going to be like to work with you. You are building a community of people with your brand. We talked about that on our branding episode recently. Would those people be proud to wear a t-shirt that says your name on it, or would they be proud to say that they bank with you, or would they be proud to say that they belong to you?
If they embarrassingly say, "I got this cake from a place with a really weird name," you should think about changing it. In our last outro, it was just Ben by himself asking you to like and subscribe, which made it look like he didn't have any friends. Please like and subscribe so he has at least virtual friends.
Ben Lueders:
I have friends, Raj.
Raj Lulla:
I'm one of them.
